avatar1338
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thats evidence that long acting insulin (and insulin in general) inhibits your own insulin secretion and doesn’t act as a “boost” to your own production.
“Inhibition of Insulin Secretion by Exogenous Insulin in Normal Man as Demonstrated by C-peptide Assay”
From these data we conclude that (1) exogenous insulin administration, with maintenance of euglycemia, results in significant inhibition of basal insulin secretion; (2) the administration of exogenous insulin for 60 minutes before and for 60 minutes after the acute induction of hyperglycemia results in significant inhibition of glucose-stimulated insulin secretion; and (3) exogenous insulin administered for just 10g minutes before and during the acute induction of hyperglycemia, however, does not result in inhibition of the insulin response to the hyperglycemic stimulus.
Accepted December 2, 1977.
Copyright © 1978 by the American Diabetes Association
e-mail: avatarderboss@hotmail.de
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This sounds ludacris to me.
Do you have science to back up the fact Long acting insulin puts your pancreas to sleep lol ????
I do agree fats should be kept lower but insulin main job is to shuttle carbs. Fats sill be stored as fat no matter what by the body as we are always producing insulin when eating Normal combined meal. Just less than what we inject.
_________________________________________
Instagram name – Hillydoc. Www.physique-enhancement.co.uk | http://www.trainedbyjpclothing.com – The most anabolic clothing ever! |
http://www.trainedbyjp-nutrition.com – highest quality supplements on the market.
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when im talking about long acting slin puting your pancreas to sleep im not talking about 10 or 20 iu of lantus a day. it obviously has to be enough to trigger the negative feedback loop, but thats what a lot of people do (at least thats what they tell me, they are doing). 50-70 iu of long acting insulin are no rarity and if you are stacking short acting insulin in top, there is a good chance that your pancreas won’t secrete insulin anymore, which will be very unhealthy over time . i should have been more precise with my answer, sorry! i thought about high doses straight away.
_________________________________________e-mail: avatarderboss@hotmail.de
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Even at the higher doses in yet to see how it would make the pancreas lazy.
I do get your train of thought. If injecting enough then maybe the pancreas will stop working n maybe not start again. A bit like the HPTA.
However we’re is there any evidence or suggestion of this. Not saying it can’t happen but id be very hard pushed to believe there is any evidence to show this may happen.
I would love to see it if so
_________________________________________Instagram name – Hillydoc. Www.physique-enhancement.co.uk | http://www.trainedbyjpclothing.com – The most anabolic clothing ever! |
http://www.trainedbyjp-nutrition.com – highest quality supplements on the market.[/quote]
Agree with you. I’ve done tones of research on it since this thread was opened and have yet to find anything supporting that claim. I have also asked a few specialists and my doctor and all of them say that it doesn’t put the pancreas to sleep since there is no negative feedback loop. [/quote]
there is a negativ feedback loop whith every hormone in the body!!!
thats the first thing that pops up when i google :
“insulin negative feedback loop”
Insulin and glucagon work in a so called negative feedback loop. During this process, one event triggers another, which triggers another, and so on, to keep your blood sugar levels balanced. Once blood sugar levels reach homeostasis, the pancreas stops releasing insulin.
your body will notice exogenous insulin and will stop producing endogenous insulin if enought exogenous insulin is present to deal with the raise in blood sugar. if the amount of sugar is higher than the amount of exogenous insulin can cover, your body will produce endogenous insulin to brin bloodsugar levels further down._________________________________________
e-mail: avatarderboss@hotmail.de
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Yes but no we’re at all
Is there any thing to say the pancreas stops working because it’s given a break.
Actual fact is lantus only works for 12 hours actively n it’s a steady release.
So when one takes in higher carb meal your own pancreas will likely need to kick out extra.
Never mind the hours it isn’t working.
It’s very improbable our pancreas will our out 0 insulin over 24 hours.
There is also 0 evidence I have seen showing this would cause the pancrease to become lazy.
We know it can become lazy from over use – type 2 diabetes
But from under use I’m sure no one actually knows ???? Unless there is research I havnt seen
_________________________________________
Instagram name – Hillydoc. Www.physique-enhancement.co.uk | http://www.trainedbyjpclothing.com – The most anabolic clothing ever! |
http://www.trainedbyjp-nutrition.com – highest quality supplements on the market.
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yes and no ????
it depends on the amount of basal insulin and the amount of carbs you are eating and if you are using additional short acting insulin with your meals.i havent had the time to dig through studies yet but if the pancreas behaves like every other gland in the body, there will be a period of very low production post medium-long term use. by the end of the week i should have some more time to spend on looking through studied so bare with me ????
e-mail: avatarderboss@hotmail.de
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This sounds ludacris to me.
Do you have science to back up the fact Long acting insulin puts your pancreas to sleep lol ????
I do agree fats should be kept lower but insulin main job is to shuttle carbs. Fats sill be stored as fat no matter what by the body as we are always producing insulin when eating Normal combined meal. Just less than what we inject.
_________________________________________
Instagram name – Hillydoc. Www.physique-enhancement.co.uk | http://www.trainedbyjpclothing.com – The most anabolic clothing ever! |
http://www.trainedbyjp-nutrition.com – highest quality supplements on the market.[/quote]
when im talking about long acting slin puting your pancreas to sleep im not talking about 10 or 20 iu of lantus a day. it obviously has to be enough to trigger the negative feedback loop, but thats what a lot of people do (at least thats what they tell me, they are doing). 50-70 iu of long acting insulin are no rarity and if you are stacking short acting insulin in top, there is a good chance that your pancreas won’t secrete insulin anymore, which will be very unhealthy over time . i should have been more precise with my answer, sorry! i thought about high doses straight away._________________________________________
e-mail: avatarderboss@hotmail.de
[/quote]
Even at the higher doses in yet to see how it would make the pancreas lazy.
I do get your train of thought. If injecting enough then maybe the pancreas will stop working n maybe not start again. A bit like the HPTA.
However we’re is there any evidence or suggestion of this. Not saying it can’t happen but id be very hard pushed to believe there is any evidence to show this may happen.
I would love to see it if so_________________________________________
Instagram name – Hillydoc. Www.physique-enhancement.co.uk | http://www.trainedbyjpclothing.com – The most anabolic clothing ever! |
http://www.trainedbyjp-nutrition.com – highest quality supplements on the market.
[/quote]
Agree with you. I’ve done tones of research on it since this thread was opened and have yet to find anything supporting that claim. I have also asked a few specialists and my doctor and all of them say that it doesn’t put the pancreas to sleep since there is no negative feedback loop. [/quote]
there is a negativ feedback loop whith every hormone in the body!!!
thats the first thing that pops up when i google :
“insulin negative feedback loop”Insulin and glucagon work in a so called negative feedback loop. During this process, one event triggers another, which triggers another, and so on, to keep your blood sugar levels balanced. Once blood sugar levels reach homeostasis, the pancreas stops releasing insulin.
your body will notice exogenous insulin and will stop producing endogenous insulin if enought exogenous insulin is present to deal with the raise in blood sugar. if the amount of sugar is higher than the amount of exogenous insulin can cover, your body will produce endogenous insulin to brin bloodsugar levels further down.
e-mail: avatarderboss@hotmail.de
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primo can be made at 200mg/ml without pip, 225 is the upper limit, everything above will very likely cause pip. the simple reason why labs usually won’t produce it higher than 100mg/ml is the price. who would buy a 10ml vial for 150£? you can’t market it. most people would buy 10ml with 100mg/ml for 75 instead of 10ml with 200mg/ml for 150. labs just don’t bother. they go with what sells best.
e-mail: avatarderboss@hotmail.de
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[/quote]
This sounds ludacris to me.
Do you have science to back up the fact Long acting insulin puts your pancreas to sleep lol ????
I do agree fats should be kept lower but insulin main job is to shuttle carbs. Fats sill be stored as fat no matter what by the body as we are always producing insulin when eating Normal combined meal. Just less than what we inject.
_________________________________________
Instagram name – Hillydoc. Www.physique-enhancement.co.uk | http://www.trainedbyjpclothing.com – The most anabolic clothing ever! |
http://www.trainedbyjp-nutrition.com – highest quality supplements on the market.
[/quote]
when im talking about long acting slin puting your pancreas to sleep im not talking about 10 or 20 iu of lantus a day. it obviously has to be enough to trigger the negative feedback loop, but thats what a lot of people do (at least thats what they tell me, they are doing). 50-70 iu of long acting insulin are no rarity and if you are stacking short acting insulin in top, there is a good chance that your pancreas won’t secrete insulin anymore, which will be very unhealthy over time . i should have been more precise with my answer, sorry! i thought about high doses straight away.
e-mail: avatarderboss@hotmail.de
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with a long aycting insulin like lantus or levemir, this would be even worse because its working around the clock. if you are using a short acting insulin, you can at least eat fats the first part of the day (if you are training in the afternoon). also, the use if a long acting insulin is pretty unhealthy because it puts your pancreas to sleep. the use of long acting slin not something i personally would recommend unless you have a very experienced coach (like milos). i know that jordan also doesnt like the idea of using it.
e-mail: avatarderboss@hotmail.de
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it depends on the amount of hgh you are planing to use, if its more than 2 iu i personally would split it up into 2 shots, if its 2 or less i would do 1.
for slin, pre and post is imo the most protocol but the compounding of insulin has to be taken into consideration.
if i had to decide, i would do my first shot of gh upon waking and my 2nd pre workout aside slin pre and post.e-mail: avatarderboss@hotmail.de
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is it a load of rubbish?!
yes and no!
firstly, all anabolics build muscle so there is no difference but higher levels in bodyfat can change some things like the conversion from testosterone to estrogen. the aromatase enzyme is produced in the fat cells so more bodyfat will usually equate to a higher rate of aromatisation. this would cause more estrogen which causes more water retention, higher bloodpressure, a higher chance of getting gyno,…
so in this case i would avoid drugs that have a higher conversion rate and a high risk of water retention (deca/dbol/anadrol/ment/high amounts of test,…)
there will be no difference in what ester you are using! test stays test, no matter if its prop, ace, cyp, e or undecanoate. it has the same properties.
however, short esters are injected ed or eod so blood levels will be more stable wdhich can cause a liwer conversion rate. thats the reasons why people will often tell you that they hold less water on (for example) test prop, so instead of changing the ester, it might be smarter to play around with more frequent injections to reduce e2 or to switch to drier compounds (for example: from deca to eq or from dbol/oxy to tbol/anavar).
the 2nd option is to lower e2 by reducing test and adding in a dht like mast or primo as a second compounds.e-mail: avatarderboss@hotmail.de
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consuming fat with moderate/high doses of insulin is probably the best way to make you fat in the shortest time possible, esp. if you are in a decent caloric surplus. it will also slow down digestion and therefore absorption which is the total opposite of what we are trying to do with slin. small amounts of trace fats are not a big deal but i personally wouldnt pick a meal with more than 5-7 g of total fat in it if was going to use insulin.
yes, fat will slow down endogenous insulin release but thats because fats slow down digestion/absorbtion and your body will react accordingly with insulin release. if you are using exogenous insulin, you always want fast digestion food, otherwhise you can run into blood sugar issues!e-mail: avatarderboss@hotmail.de
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when i use gh, i use it ed at 4 iu split into at least 2 shots.
slin depends on what i want to achieve. i have used it on weak body parts only, on training days only and ed 4 weeks on 4 weeks off on training days only and on training and rest days) .
on training days i usually use it pre and post in a 6-8 iu range.
if i use it ed i will lower it on rest days to about 5 iu once or max twice a day a pre meal (usually in the morning and mid day).
if i use it only occasionally i tend to use it for longer periods of time (around 6-8 weeks, depending on my fasted bg levels) and 4 weeks max on ed use. my slin dose and schedule changes from time to time if. i feel that im full abd dont need insulin on certain days i just dont do it or reduce it to pre or post workout only instead of pre and post. most of the time i go by feel and how i look.e-mail: avatarderboss@hotmail.de
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you could add it but i think it might be a bit over the top. i personally would save it and use it for a cruise as an alternative to test. i actually like eq more than test in a cruise scenario because it has a much lower conversion rate (so you don’t need an ai which will help you improve lipids faster), very low impact on bloods, will keep you reasonably full and is still a testosterone derivative.
e-mail: avatarderboss@hotmail.de
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i wouldnt touch mk pre contest. the amount of hunger it will cause will most likely be a problem, you would also hold a good amount of water and it will make you tired. all things you don’t want in a prep.
gh can be used to increase fat oxidation and fullness but once you pull it, you will most likel loose fullness.
e-mail: avatarderboss@hotmail.de
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the thing is, aldosteron will block sodium uptake which often makes filling out very hard or even impossible and it can cause camping that CAN’T be fixed with sodium intake. with diazide you always got a bit of wiggle room.
e-mail: avatarderboss@hotmail.de
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agree with james. both are dht derivatives (and not even particularly strong ones tbh). they are almost always taken in combination with other drugs so its hard to point out what is doing what. on top of that, everybody responds slightly different to drugs, its effects and side effects. even if we would provide studies regarding both drugs, they often don’t relate 100% to the real world effects.
i personally prefer primo over mast but like i said, its not a huge difference and im still not sure if the difference in price really justifies the minor benefifts.
e-mail: avatarderboss@hotmail.de
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2 completely difference compounds. i personally wouldn’t bother using aldactone. it has some major drawbacks and can be a pain in tge ass to control esp when it comes to filling out.
e-mail: avatarderboss@hotmail.de